#and sam doesn't really understand it

[carlyraejepsans]

hibiscia!!! Sorry if youve explained before but is there something specific about reset-remember fics that you hate? I don't really like them either but for me it's just because I feel like a lot of authors type sans in very ooc ways

They're completely antithetical to Sans' character arc for the sake of cheap and easy angst. The nature of his brand of cosmic horror isn't in reliving his life again and again, that's Flowey's. Sans knows OF the anomaly, knows that it's manipulating time and knows it's a threat to the entire universe, but he doesn't know how or why, because he doesn't remember.

And that's crucial! him being mostly in the dark in spite of the MANY warning signs about us... because it's in that doubt that he remains hopeful. YES we could potentially end the world... but what if we don't? yes we have unimaginable power over everyone else and we can bring back time, but what if we're just.... sad? he needs that gap in his knowledge so he can take a leap of faith across it, it's his entire character arc in the pacifist run. sans THINKS he's given up, he wants to have given up, he chose to do it because there's a comfort in that. in contenting yourself with good food and bad laughs. there's peace. but he hasn't given up, not really. on himself? maybe. but not in us.

there's no way to have that arc if he remembers resets.

[incesthemes]

"their relationship is romantic" "their relationship is familial" "their relationship is platonic" you're thinking too narrow. their relationship goes beyond labels. the family is inherently queer. their platonic love is romantic. the erotic is familial. each one is the other and the other is them

[daincrediblegg]

so seriously I think sam reid has more talent in his pinky than the entire cast of succession combined and if no awards recognize this I will actually burn hollywood to the ground and that is a promise <3

[mayasdeluca]

Danielle answering what she would change in Marina's journey

[arabella-s-arts]

After watching the first two episodes of MAWS season 2 I can confidently say...

Lois what the #$%#!

[feedingicetothedog]

thinking a lot about how sam said that he sees lestat as a high status clown that can't really process that someone might be laughing at him.........

[lovevalley45]

the more i see everything with watcher unfold, the more i think that it's just as much abt how they decided to execute it as what they're doing

[quietwingsinthesky]

soulless sam was at his best when he was still being written as a version of sam, to accentuate parts of him that normally get held back, and not as 'guess he's evil now'. soulless sam when he's reflecting sam's tendency to lose sight of everything else in pursuit of a goal. soulless sam when he's just kind of rude without thinking about it without his filter on. soulless sam when he's equal parts intent on keeping dean with him and also happy to lie to him and keep him shut out of the things he knows dean won't like so that dean won't leave. soulless sam when he equally recognizes that he is a better hunter now, and also that he probably can't continue to exist without his soul. (you know. before they went along with making him just kind of evil.)

...soulless sam when he's begging for literally anyone to acknowledge his autonomy in this situation and not force him to take his soul back without knowing how much it could damage him and being ignored.

[ananke-xiii]

S9E1 Castiel being freshly human, not understanding a thing of what's going on, fully aware that a.lot. of angels would very much like to kill him just.because meets a random angel on the street (Hael) and he's like: LET'S GO SEE THE GRAND CANYON TOGETHER, WOO-HOOO!

[lawrence-songs]

An anon, meaning well: how does interacting with bendykins feel?

Me, attempting to restrain myself to the best of my ability: ahem. I mean. It's wonderful.

[batcavescolony]

S4 E4 Supernatural

Dean finds out that Sam is using his demon powers to expell demons without killing the host. Now I understand both sides, it's not like I'm on one side, I see both. On Dean's side a literal Angel of the Lord came down to say 'talk shit into your brother or we go after him' and he found out Sam was lying to him for like a year. But on Sam's side he found out he's like the things he hunts, but he found a way to help people with the evil thing he was given. They're both going through it, they're both scared and traumatized, they both are right and wrong.

[incesthemes]

as i've rewatched seasons 1 and 2 of supernatural i've been pondering and hypothesizing reasons why john was so adamant on not letting sam know about his destiny. why he was so intent on keeping this secret, why he didn't want sam knowing about monsters, why his role in their hunts appeared to be research-oriented and thus away from the action. my perspective on ignorance and censorship is that it enables further harm, so if john were going to effectively protect sam, it would stand to reason that sam should have a comprehensive understanding of his destiny and what he's up against: give him the tools to fight.

this is obviously not the route john went, so then i have to question why that is—what about censorship was so appealing to him that he thought it not only the best way to keep sam safe, but perhaps even the only way to keep him safe, based on how he begged even dean to keep sam's fate a secret from him in his final words?

so i got to thinking. namely, about the fact that azazel wants sam to be hunting: he killed jessica with the intent to drag him back into the life, which implies that if sam is hunting, he is going down the path azazel wants him to go—he's following his destiny. this aligns with the everpresent theme throughout season 1 that hunting is a monstrous lifestyle, that hunting turns people into monsters. if sam is destined to become a monster, then hunting is the most sure-fire way to get him there.

if azazel wants sam to hunt, then john would need to take the logical opposition and keep sam out of hunting—so, he wouldn't tell sam about monsters until he has to, he'd give sam more passive roles once sam is participating in hunts, he'd train sam in self-defense but not explain why. and importantly, he wouldn't talk about mary, who is the root cause of this lifestyle, the impetus for their revenge quest, more than he has to. if the goal is to keep sam as far away from hunting as possible, and if john is someone who thinks ignorance keeps someone safe, then this more or less explains most of how sam was raised: on the fringes of the family, excluded and sheltered.

but weirdly enough, it wasn't until i was reading east of eden the other night that i finally understood the perspective being presented: late in the novel, the character lee says "when the first innocence is gone, you can't stop."

it made me remember that sam picks. he is a character who wants to understand the world around him and his place in it. if something is bothering him, he turns it over in his head until it consumes him. dean places doubt in sam's head in 2x10 and it obliterates him by 2x11. he's convinced he's going to become some horrible monster because he never stops thinking and trying to figure things out. when his memory is wiped in 4x17 and normal guy sam wesson finds out his coworker is the guy from his weird dreams, he pursues him relentlessly until they're back hunting. when he discovers the wall death put in his mind to keep his hell trauma out in season 6, he pushes and can't stop until it starts crumbling around him. he's intelligent and clever and he wants to know everything. and when he doesn't know, he picks.

and the only way to stop a person like that from picking is to not let them know that there's something to pick at in the first place. that's what the quote from east of eden means: once you catch wind of something, you want to pursue it until you're satisfied. curiosity kills the cat.

and what john is up against is fate itself. something that isn't supposed to be messed with, something that's supposed to be unavoidable. so trying to thwart it is tricky business. he has to be careful.

i think working under that logic his response makes sense, even if it wound up being a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway—sam was always going to find out, and sam was always going to pick. there was nothing john could do in the end to stop it, and trying to keep sam ignorant only made him that much more desperate to know. but that's the great tragedy of it all: john was given an impossible choice, and he's a deeply flawed character. he did what he thought was best, and it only made things worse.

i like this interpretation because it ties all of john's choices together really well; it explains a lot about his character and gives a nuanced and rather reasonable explanation for why he did what he did: a dad who wants the best for his kid does what he believes will set him up on the path to success. when the first innocence is gone, you can't stop—so john does his damnedest to keep sam innocent, even to his dying breath.

the problem comes down to that someone's damnedest isn't always good enough, and that sometimes someone's damnedest ends up benefiting the enemy instead.

[mirchloe]

there's something so kind about how raz and dogen immediately connect. for raz to go in to camp not knowing much about dogen, it's easier for him to open up. dogen has already instilled trepidation in the hearts of the other kids, so his only real friend is lili, but raz is a special case. raz isn't one to judge, especially not to someone who welcomed him right off the bat. dogen is the first kid raz has a conversation with, and that's a pretty big deal. dogen might reach out to others with whom he's comfortable, but raz had been a total stranger, and yet, he's comfortable to sit on the steps with him and just talk. it's a really nice moment that gets overlooked because focus is given to lili watching raz and the impact of his declarations because there are clearly issues going on in raz's home. dogen has his own fair share of issues, both psychic and familial (which stem from his psychic issues), so it's incredibly pleasant he found a kindred spirit in raz.

[cold--carnage]

hrmghhhhh

[lakemichigans]

finger hovering over the play button on succession episode 1 so i can participate in society but i black out and when i awake i'm rewatching supernatural again

[wigglebox]

One of the first times it really hit home to me how Dean can't win with Sam ever is during Faith.

I feel like because of the big deal made at the end of season 2 folks think Dean is the first one to ignore instinct and what he knew to be right just to save a family member but no, it was Sam.

And in that episode Dean is accepting he's going to die. That hey, he saved some kids, but something went wrong, he doesn't have much longer, and it is what it is. It sucks, but it is what it is. Sam was the one who couldn't stand that and decided to ignore his own instincts, and Dean's protests, and dragged him to Roy and pressured him in front of everyone to go up on that stage.

And then once they learned the cost of what Roy was doing, Dean had that weight on his shoulders that some poor bastard died just to save him, when he didn't even want to be saved in any capacity.

I think that was also the first time I had really understood and processed just how reckless Sam could be. You'd think he was the more understanding one but I think that's just that young 20's something, college boy earnestness but in reality, there's a reason why Sam and John are often grouped together instead of Dean and John. Especially when you think about how John sacrificed himself and burdened Dean with the guilt of having to take out his own brother if push came to shove.

And the fact that Sam continued to try to push Dean after John's death to talk about it, despite clearly seeing the signals that he doesn't want to or isn't ready at that point, is sad.

And THEN you pile all that on top of the guilt Dean already felt by pulling Sam from school and basically back into a life he had 'successfully' left [i say successfully because we learned later on that Lucifer and his cronies were essentially tracking his every move anyway] and because Dean had pulled Sam away from Jessica just for a few days, she died in that time.

Now, at the time, they didn't know it was part of a wider plan, but that doesn't matter. Feeling guilt is feeling guilt.

That was even brought up in 7.04, Defending your Life where Osiris calls Sam to the stand to try and get him to admit that Dean essentially ruined what would have been a promising future as a lawyer. By now we know that wouldn't have happened regardless because of the apocalypse stuff but that doesn't change Dean's guilt whatsoever.

And he really has no one to talk to about this. It's why in 4.16, On the Head of a Pin, that conversation Dean has with Cas after he's all beat up and stuff and talking about being disappointments to their fathers and the like, I really liked that heart to heart because he can't really talk to anyone else who is essentially on the same level as him: Guilt over ruined plans, shame, seen as nothing more than a tool, expectations they put on themselves through pressures of their family, so on and so forth.

There were two heart-to-hearts in season 4 that stood out to me, particularly because they were so early on in their time together: 4.07 and 4.16. Both times, they're on an equal plane while talking. Cas isn't standing in 4.07 but sitting next to Dean on an adjacent bench. And Cas in 4.16 is sitting next to Dean, who is in a hospital bed rather than standing by the door or something. And the conversation in 4.07 was one that he'd have to really trust Dean on because he was admitting he has feelings of doubt. He's barely known this man.

And I believe this guilt that Dean carries over a myriad of things obviously carries all the way to Season 15 where it's also manifested into existential dread.

It always frustrated me that for a good portion of time, Sam just never stopped to thnk about what Dean was constantly going through. There were some moments and some moments he acknowledged that Dean raised him and stuff but I don't think he ever fully understood and a lot of the times they talked about stuff, it came from a Sam-centric place and the outcome wasn't always favorable. Like OP says, Dean couldn't really win. Even sometimes with Bobby he'd lose and Bobby is their father figure.

It's why I loved the addition of Cas into the mix and was happy he stayed around because Dean needed someone on his level metaphorically and "role" wise.

It's why he was so angry at the end of season 14 and part of season 15 at Cas. At first it's like 'Oh he's mad because Cas omitted the truth about Jack and that caused Mary to die' but I think once Dean understood that Chuck had been pulling strings, that Mary was likely going to die anyway.

If you rewatch those episodes, especially beginning of season 15, Dean isn't mad at Jack. He's mad at Cas, and that's because that trust between them was broken. That trust that had been there since they met in season 4, that understanding they both had.

Obviously there had been trust issues in earlier seasons from time to time but that didn't change the fact that they were equal and by season 14/15 they should have trusted each other more.

Dean constantly had his trust broken, and whenever he would let one or two walls down [Cassie, Sam, Bobby, so on and so forth] he'd get hurt.

He's never had anyone in his corner.

You really just can't unsee it once you see it though, can you?

Sam starts blaming Dean for what he's going to do (work with Ruby) way back in 3.09 because Dean isn't going to be around to be Sam's mommy, which is going to force Sam's hand.

After Dean comes back, Sam actually blames Dean for him working with Ruby by saying Dean wasn't there to protect him (4.04).

Dean repeatedly begs Sam not to work with Ruby and is ignored repeatedly (3.03, 3.04, 3.09, 3.16, 4.01-4.04, 4.12-4.22).

After telling Dean to open up to him and trust him (4.08), Sam calls Dean weak and pathetic for being traumatized by hell and says Dean is holding him back and therefore deserves to be lied to because he can't be of use (4.14) Sam says it's not what he really thinks when they both know it is (and Sam repeats it to other characters in 4.16, and 4.18) and then he admits it's the truth again to Dean's face in 4.21.

Sam accuses Dean of not trusting him enough (4.21).

Bobby blows up at Dean for not supporting Sam enough and calls him a pansy after Sam strangled Dean near unconscious, and tells him family is supposed to make you miserable (4.22).

Dean tries to reach out to Sam and Zachariah and Cas actively prevent him from doing so (Cas only at first) (4.22)

Zachariah (5.01) and Cas (5.02) both tell Dean the apocalypse is his fault because Dean didn't reach Sam in time to stop him from killing Lilith.

Dean says Sam hurt him, Sam is the one Dean depended on the most and Sam hurt him in ways he can't even voice (5.01). Sam apologizes, but then in the very next episode, shoves Dean into a wall for not trusting him like Dean is crazy and irrational when Sam doesn't even trust himself (5.02).

Sam says he thinks they should go their separate ways and is shocked when Dean agrees easily. Dean says that he spends more time worrying about Sam than he does doing the job right and time apart would be good. Sam reiterates that he's sorry and Dean gently says he knows Sam is (5.02).

Cas asks Dean if he's okay even without his brother, and Dean says "Especially without my brother. I mean, I spent so much time worrying about the son of a bitch. I mean, I’ve had more fun with you in the past twenty-four hours than I’ve had with Sam in years, and you’re not that much fun. It’s funny, you know, I’ve been so chained to my family, but now that I’m alone, hell, I’m happy." (5.03)

Sam says he wants back in. Dean objects, on the basis that he thinks they're stronger apart. Dean says they're each other's weaknesses and it's being used against them (5.04, but the weakness line is repeated from 3.03 and 3.16).

Zachariah pushes Dean into a future 2014 where Dean never met up with Sam again, and as a result, Sam said "Yes" to Lucifer, and billions of people died. All because Dean didn't want to be around Sam after being hurt and never reconnected with him (5.04).

Dean reconnects with Sam (5.04) even though he clearly doesn't want to, because the first case we see them on again, Dean struggles to trust Sam and leaves to go drink alone because he doesn't want to be around Sam (5.05).

Sam says part of the reason he went off with Ruby was to get away from Dean, because Dean is smothering. Dean is the problem in the relationship, because Sam feels inferior compared to him. Dean apologizes for being too smothering (5.05).

What does all of this tell you? Dean can't win. Dean will always be the bad guy in the family. He loves too much, or he isn't loving enough. Sam needs him and Dean wasn't there for him and so Sam went down the wrong path, but also Dean is smothering and Dean being smothering is the reason Sam went down the wrong path. Sam is not a trustworthy person, but Dean doesn't trust him enough. Sam not being trustworthy is Dean's fault. Dean doesn't deserve trust, but Sam deserves Dean's trust no matter what and not giving Sam his trust is the worst possible thing in the entire world and also again makes him smothering. The apocalypse is Dean's fault. Every single thing Sam does every single mistake he might ever make in his life is always at least partly Dean's fault and Dean's responsibility.